dense population plus birdwatching: welcoming birds without welcoming rats

[jadelennox]

This is a question for specifically other urban folks living in areas with increased rat presence in recent years. The answers to these questions are very different if you're not in an urban area.

I asked some audobon people and they were so flummoxed by the notion of city folks having specific bird watching needs. (It was almost funny but in retrospect it probably comes back to historical racism and outdoorsiness, doesn't it? Ugh.)

(For non-urban folks, whether or not you personally think rats are demonized is unfortunately irrelevant in urban areas. A large rat presence means people put out poison, poisoned rats get eaten by raptors, and then the raptors die from the rat poison. It's pretty bad. Rats caused some astronomically expensive property damage for me last winter, but that's almost incidental to the larger "poison" problem.)

Over the past few years, I've been making my home a lot more bird friendly. But I live in a city with an increased rat presence, so how to avoid being more rat friendly?

• I still have feeders out, but I keep wildlife cams with night cameras trained underneath them so I know if the rats have found them. So far, they haven't, because the feeders are far away from the nearby dumpsters. (Mice have found them, but mice aren't the problem here.)
• I know they burrow in the compost pile, and I can't figure out what to do about that. By which I mean, I know exactly what to do about that (stop composting) but I can't bear to do it. Yet.
• All the bird-friendly garden suggestions are extremely rat friendly. I have lots of tall, seed bearing native plants, which provide shelter, hiding spaces, and food for birds, insects, and rats. Pest control people basically want no seeds, and no plants over an inch or two. Aiyee, from a bird perspective.
• At one point I had some wood and brush piles which audobon suggests to provide shelter for birds and their prey, but it had to go, because whoops, they also covered rat tunnels.
• Also pest control people don't want you to have any outdoor water sources, like puddles or bird baths.

For now I'm relying on a wildlife cam, my Planned Rodentood (a rat contraceptive station, which they mostly ignore), and regular tunneling inspections all around the building. Crossed fingers that will be enough, for now.

So, if you're urban, and you live in a place with a high rat population, how do you make the place bird friendly but not rat friendly?

I have so many birds and I love it, and I really don't want them to stop seeing my home as friendly to them, but I need to manage the other problem and it's rough.

Comments

[meowmensteen]

I don't have a whole lot of advice. I have a cat, she catches rats... but also birds so that part isn't great.

One thing is that I've given up on having loose seed feeders and either use suet or seed bells that have all the seeds stuck together. I've noticed with the loose seeds, some of the birds will pick through them for their favorite kind of seed and throw the other ones on the ground which attracts rodents.

One thing I've heard of, but I don't have any first hand knowledge on, is that people get synthetic cat urine and spray it around areas like compost piles. Rats tend to avoid areas that smell like cat pee. I wonder how well that works, but it's an idea.

In my spice garden I have a Bay Laurel tree. It's about ten feet tall, and as it was growing I kept the trunk pruned well. Now it has this nice dark foliage on top, but a bare stump. Birds love staging there before they go to my feeders. They feel safe hiding in the dark leaves. It's right by my front window, so I get to watch a lot of bird action in there. I've never seen a rat climb up the trunk or any evidence that they've nested in there. I guess it's too high up, or maybe they don't like the aroma of Bay leaves... that's the other bonus. I have an abundance of bay leave. For a water bath, I hung a large plant saucer from one of the branches of the Bay. This also keeps my cat away from it too since she can't climb the narrow trunk. I often see birds drinking from it and bathing in it. I change the water pretty regularly though, to keep mosquitoes away.

Haha, my local audubon people weren't too interested in any of my pigeon questions. Pigeon are birds too!

[jadelennox]

that's smart. they do sometimes manage to make a mess at the suet feeder, especially when the sparrows go for it (even though it's the upside-down kind, the persistent little weirdos). But it's nothing compared to the seed feeder, which they're utter slobs at.

The cats catch mice in the house but I'd be worried about them going for rats, honestly, because of the neighborhood poison problem. There are plenty of neighborhood cats, and there's a ton of catnip growing in my yard to encourage them, so I like to think that helps a little.

Feeder hanging from the tree is a nice idea.

And pigeons are totally birds, too! They're even interesting birds, and beautiful, in their own way.

Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

I live in rural territory, but I have seen discussions about rat issues. There are many references on how to defend bird resources from pests and predators.

>>I know they burrow in the compost pile, and I can't figure out what to do about that. By which I mean, I know exactly what to do about that (stop composting) but I can't bear to do it. Yet.<<

Options include:

If you can afford to buy a composter, that will solve the problem. The elevated tumbler type is not only inaccessible to rats but also works faster. Like if you spin it daily, it'll finish in about 2 weeks during warm weather. A 2-bin model will let you add material to one while maturing the other. A 3-bin or more system will let you add, work, and take from different bins.

Alternatively, it is possible to make a compost container that will be inaccessible to rats, if you surround it with something like scrap tin or hardware cloth. People have even made hotbins out of old windows. It depends on what you can source locally free or cheap, your ingenuity and handyskills, but many possibilities exist. Huh, my search turned up ordinary metal trash cans with holes drilled in them, that one's new to me.

https://goodlifepermaculture.com.au/how-to-rodent-proof-your-compost-bin

https://www.growveg.com/guides/how-to-keep-rats-out-of-your-compost/

https://solanacenter.org/2018/05/25/easy-ways-to-rat-critter-proof-your-compost-bin/

A different approach is to compost things that rats aren't as fond of (e.g. grass clippings, dead leaves).

If you regularly compost things that rats love, such as food scraps, consider a method that will make them unappealing to rats, such as fermentation.

https://bokashicycle.com/bokashi-gardening-fermented-food-waste-pet-poop-and-yard-waste-make-a-great-garden

Also, rats prefer less-disturbed areas to more-disturbed areas. If you turn your compost frequently, they will be less attracted to it. Another method is using an aerator -- look for a punch or drill type that will penetrate the whole depth. This will deter any other mammals like mice or moles too.

https://www.backyarddigs.com/compost/best-compost-aerators/


>>All the bird-friendly garden suggestions are extremely rat friendly. I have lots of tall, seed bearing native plants, which provide shelter, hiding spaces, and food for birds, insects, and rats. Pest control people basically want no seeds, and no plants over an inch or two. Aiyee, from a bird perspective.<<

Ah, but there's one difference: rats live primarily on the ground, while most birds (aside from ground species) live mostly in the air. In a seriously rat-prone area, it might be good idea to clear off the ground level and instead focus on bushes and trees with their cover above 2 feet or so. Advice on clear-ground gardening is found for fire-prone areas. It's pretty wildlife-hostile in general, but because birds fly, it can impact them a lot less.

https://www.readyforwildfire.org/prepare-for-wildfire/get-ready/fire-smart-landscaping/

https://www.thisoldhouse.com/landscaping/21015539/firesafe-landscaping-defensible-space


Regarding seeds, consider "shattering" (which means dropping seeds on the ground) as a selection aspect. Species that retain fruit or seeds in tough cases above ground would be much less attractive to rats. Frex, some crabapples have persistent fruit, and some flowers have seedpods.

https://beechhollowfarms.com/winter-persistent-berries-a-birds-best-friend/


Another approach is to put seedbearing plants in hanging baskets over a patio. Birds can easily reach the plants but rats could be kept away with wires and baffles. Anything falling to the patio could then be swept up, although admittedly that's more work.

https://squirrelenthusiast.com/how-do-you-keep-squirrels-out-of-hanging-baskets/

https://plantophiles.com/houseplant-tips/squirrels-away-from-potted-plants/


You can also look at plants which attract birds in ways that do not also appeal to mammals. If you have hummingbirds, get tube-shaped flowers.

https://www.almanac.com/plants-attract-hummingbirds


Anything that attracts insects will also attract birds, because many birds are insectivores, and almost all birds raise their chicks on caterpillars. Probably avoid using garden crops to make caterpillars, since rats like many of the same things. Willow and birch are two great trees for hosting caterpillars but don't drop fruit or nuts that rats would like.

https://www.ruralsprout.com/bee-butterfly-plants/

https://www.permaculturenews.org/2014/10/04/plants-attract-beneficial-insects/

https://patterson.audubon.org/sites/default/files/top_10_plants_for_your_habitat_garden_downloadable.pdf


Some plants that attract insects are downright abhorrent to mammals, such as most alliums (my garlic chives are always swarming) or other strong-smelling herbs like mint or sage. Anything with a "deer-resistant" label means most mammals would rather not eat it. Sometimes they will be labeled for other herbivores instead. Things that are fuzzy or prickly are good bets.

https://www.hgtv.com/outdoors/flowers-and-plants/24-deer-resistant-plants-pictures

https://www.hgtv.com/outdoors/flowers-and-plants/20-flowers-and-plants-rabbits-hate-pictures

https://www.babikow.com/plant-characteristic/Squirrel-Resistant

https://www.automatictrap.com/blogs/news/rodent-attracting-plants-to-avoid

https://www.yourindoorherbs.com/plants-repel-rats/


>>At one point I had some wood and brush piles which audobon suggests to provide shelter for birds and their prey, but it had to go, because whoops, they also covered rat tunnels.<<

Create upright ones instead. Birds love standing snags. A large dead branch hung horizontally in the air could also work. There are hanging perches you can make or buy. Birds will land on a trellis or other garden art too. Vertical or aerial habitat doesn't much interest rats.

http://www.wildbirdsgpw.com/add-snag-yard

https://s3.wp.wsu.edu/uploads/sites/2073/2022/02/Create-a-Snag.pdf

https://www.audubon.org/magazine/winter-2018/how-set-perfect-perch-backyard-bird-photography

https://www.ehow.com/how_12342944_make-fairy-bird-perch.html

https://www.gardengatemagazine.com/review/garden-trellis/


>>Also pest control people don't want you to have any outdoor water sources, like puddles or bird baths.<<

That's a serious issue. No water, no life. And it's not good for humans to have no natural water around them either.

However, there's at least one version that appeals to birds but not much else: misters. Placed in the open air, they don't form a pool.
Some bird fixtures have a mister or dripper with a bowl of water underneath, but these come in hanging form as well as standing form. A hanging bowl can be made inaccessible to anything that doesn't fly.

http://www.thewoodthrushshop.com/news/2016/9/22/drippers-misters-and-moving-water

https://www.thebirdhousechick.com/collections/hanging-bird-baths


Consider birdfeeders designed to defend small birds from larger critters of any kind. Cage-type bird feeders are one good example, if you wish to feed tiny birds like chickadees, titmice, warblers, or wrens.

https://www.backyardbirdwatcher.com/cagefeeders.html


Browse ideas for keeping squirrels out of birdfeeders. Squirrels are much better at getting into things than rats because they excel at climbing and jumping, and they chew similarly. Their handpaws are also bigger and stronger. So anything that keeps out squirrels should also keep out rats, except for weight-based models because rats are too light to trigger most of those.

https://www.birdsandblooms.com/birding/attracting-birds/feeding-birds/squirrel-proof-bird-feeders/

https://birdwatchinghq.com/squirrels-off-bird-feeders/

https://happygardens.com/blogs/news/how-to-squirrel-proof-bird-feeder


Also, squirrels and rats are mammals, so they are sensitive to some things that birds don't care about. One is pepper:

https://blog.gardenuity.com/keep-squirrels-away-from-your-garden/

This can be done with black pepper or hot peppers. Bear in mind that hot peppers can get hot enough to cause chemical burns, so if something mild like black pepper or cayenne doesn't do the trick, haul out the scorpions!

Some brands offer peppered birdseed, or you could make your own. There is some debate whether it's completely safe for birds, but it is definitely less appetizing to mammals. It's something you could explore if necessary.

Another is predator pee. This is best for more protected areas, like under a deck or in a garage, where it won't wear off as fast as it does outdoors. A little tip for verisimilitude: think about how dogs and cats move, and where they leave each other p-mail. Dose those locations. Rats know how predators behave and will more readily believe what seems like a legit scent-marking than a random spray.

https://www.predatorpeestore.com/repel-rats-rat-problems-coyote-urine.html


Some cities work on attracting raptors to deal with rats, which can prove quite effective. Owls, falcons, and hawks are among the raptors that are pretty easy to attract with nice nesting locations.

https://www.raptorsarethesolution.org/the-benefits-of-raptors/

https://www.raptorsarethesolution.org/preferred-pest-control-products


And on the topic of nests, birdhouses are attractive to birds whereas rats do not nest up trees or atop posts. Stay away from the "novelty" stuff. Consider houses for species that are extra-inhospitable such as much too small, much too big, or shelf-type. You may wish to use a metal pest-excluding plate or tube to prevent small holes from getting chewed larger. Make a list of bird species you'd like to assist, then research their nest needs -- birds have very specific tastes in size and shape -- to see which ones would be the most hostile to rats. Obviously, if you have any big trees and somewhere for raptors to perch, then put up a house for your local raptors! No big trees? Consider a perch or platform.

https://www.birdsandblooms.com/birding/attracting-birds/bird-nesting/attracting-nesting-birds-better-birdhouses/

https://www.birdwatching-bliss.com/bird-house-dimensions.html

https://www.birdwatching-bliss.com/bird-house-plans.html

https://nestwatch.org/learn/all-about-birdhouses/

https://www.songbirdgarden.com/store/scripts/prodlist.asp?idCategory=618

https://www.bestnest.com/bestnest/bird_houses.asp

https://70birds.com/bird-species/

https://70birds.com/

https://70birds.com/birdhouses/raptors/

https://tommy51.tripod.com/perch.html


There are also ways to dissuade predators from birdhouses:

https://www.thespruce.com/protecting-bird-houses-from-predators-386633


And general tips on rat-proofing a garden:

https://www.epicgardening.com/rat-proof-garden/

https://www.wikihow.com/Keep-Rats-Out-of-a-Vegetable-Garden

https://www.installitdirect.com/learn/how-to-get-rid-of-rats-naturally/

https://gardeningwithconfidence.com/blog/how-to-rat-proof-your-garden/

https://www.twpinc.com/wire-mesh-by-project/pest-control/rat-mesh

Re: Thoughts

[jadelennox]

hahaha rat proofing in the city does not work this way. my compost bins are lined with hardware cloth, but the rats chewed through cinder blocks and destroyed my garage. They and the squirrels between them have gnawed holes in all the rat-proof dumpsters in the apartment block next door. They're little destruction savants.

And I definitely don't want to attract raptors, because the neighbors do put out poison; the town has been begging people to stop because they keep finding dying hawks and eagles.

Cayenne pepper in the suet definitely doesn't dissuade the mice -- the rats haven't been near the feeders so I'm not sure.

I'll try some standing snags, that's an idea. It will mostly be for aesthetic -- one thing about urban areas is that there is no shortage of fenceposts, gutters, eaves, telephone poles, electric poles, etc. that woodpeckers and doves and sparrows hang out in -- but it will be cute, at least.

Re: Thoughts

[ysabetwordsmith]

>>the rats chewed through cinder blocks and destroyed my garage. They and the squirrels between them have gnawed holes in all the rat-proof dumpsters in the apartment block next door.<<

O ... kay. O_O Rats chewing through concrete and metal is new to me.

I looked for something more robust and found that some people are using electricity to deter or kill rats.

This version lies flat on the ground and can be configured in any layout using the metal tiles.
https://www.thegridguard.com/about-rat-repellent

You'd need a taller fence for rats than mice, but the hardware cloth is a good idea.
https://www.farmshow.com/a_article.php?aid=33015

https://a-z-animals.com/reviews/5-things-that-kill-rats-instantly/


If you have plenty of money, I suppose you could always try loading for bear ...

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=livingwithbears.bearcontainers

https://bearsaver.com/collections/bear-resistant-food-storage-lockers

https://kodiak-products.com/

https://bearguardian.com/


I'm sorry the problem is so bad in your area. That really sucks.

Re: Thoughts

[dantesspirit]

Are you sure those are rats and not rodents of unusual size?

Unfortunately, if we feed the birds, thereby attracting larger numbers of them, we're also going to attract raptors whether we want to or not.

I once had a Red Shouldered Hawk land on my porch, back at the townhouse, in the city. That was an experience. I'll have to see if I can find the photo.

[dantesspirit]

Honestly, if you feed the birds, you're going to attract unwanted guests as well.

It didn't matter what food I used, I still had Opossums and rats show up, back when we lived in the city. Even with a stable feral colony around, they still showed up (deer too, actually)- (the ferals were, unfortunately, poisoned by a nam around the corner who deliberately put out antifreeze one fall. So glad we were adopted by Morrigan well before that happened.) And did you know, rats can, and will climb? Yeah, I watched 3 juveniles climb a porch post to get to a feeder once. That was... interesting. If they really want something, they'll figure out how to get it.

At this point, I think it's a part of urban living we have to accept and just do what we can to mitigate the damage caused by them.

As far as the compost pile, try a barrel roller style that's elevated up off the ground. It's completely enclosed and they won't be able to get into it. Otherwise, roofing tin dug down into the ground about 1-2ft, or even hardware cloth buried under the pile and up the sides will help and is a lot cheaper. (We had to dig out our raised beds and lay hardware cloth under them, because of moles.)

Buried metal trash cans work, but may be cost prohibative based on size- it's also a good recommendation for dog feces too.

At any rate, good luck!